This section of the forum is for any complete beginners just starting in the world of music production. No question is too basic and no answer isn't helpful.
updated by @bevanmusiq: 12/31/21 04:28:08AM
Complete beginners forum
Hi everyone, beginner here along with couple of questions;
- Do I really need the 3rd party plugin that everyone uses for sidechain? Or Ableton's stock plugins should work just fine?( Also I have LFO tool by Xfer, if that works too)
-In case of Sidechain with stock plugins, couple of them ( maybe more and I haven't figured it out yet) have side chain option, how do I choose one? If I have auto filter and compression on the same channel, sidechain goes to which one? (Probably I would always go with compression)
-And, I also realized that people create a deactivated channel with kick for only sidechain, is it a must, or can I go with the one I already have ?
Thanks for answers
updated by @tuto: 08/19/21 06:04:53PM
- Do I really need the 3rd party plugin that everyone uses for sidechain? Or Ableton's stock plugins should work just fine?( Also I have LFO tool by Xfer, if that works too)
-In case of Sidechain with stock plugins, couple of them ( maybe more and I haven't figured it out yet) have side chain option, how do I choose one? If I have auto filter and compression on the same channel, sidechain goes to which one? (Probably I would always go with compression)
-And, I also realized that people create a deactivated channel with kick for only sidechain, is it a must, or can I go with the one I already have ?
Thanks for answers
updated by @tuto: 08/19/21 06:04:53PM
Hey Tu!
1. Ableton's stock plugins do the job but other plugins come with extra benefits like multiband for instance (sidechaining/ducking the high and low frequencies in different amounts). Devious Machines Duck is one plug that does this for instance. The reason it's useful is you might not need to duck the whole signal, which can make the sound cut out a bit too obviously, but might prefer to just get the bass out the way and have the highs stay mostly as they are.
Another option is dynamic EQ btw. This is a type of EQ that can be fed a sidechain signal, e.g. kick drum, which then controls an EQ band, like a low frequency band or shelf, which can be made to lower when the sidechain signal is received. It's another subtler and sometimes much more preferable form of ducking. Pretty sure this is covered on the EQ Fundamentals course https://www.producertech.com/staff-picks/148/eq-fundamentals?number=PT001
2. You can find a sidechain on Live's filter and also gate. They can both be used to achieve different things - the filter sidechain allows you to modulate the filter cutoff with the sidechain signal, to bring high or low frequencies (or a band/notch in those modes) in or out, often to create interesting rhythms, e.g. using a drum loop as the sidechain signal on a filter on a bass track. You can learn about that in the Art of Filtering course. https://www.producertech.com/staff-picks/170/the-art-of-filtering?number=PT007
Gate sidechaining is a bit like a compressor one in reverse - the signal being sent to the sidechain opens the gate (in default mode), so makes the sound heard, after which the gate closes and the track is turned down or silenced. You might use this for instance if layering two sounds together, or if wanting to create a 'gated' effect on a sustained sound, e.g. using a drum loop as the sidechain signal for a gate on a noisy, sustained synth track.
So, they all have different effects and you should play around with all of them to get to know them, after which you'll be able to decide for yourself when you might find them useful......
3. That's up to you. The reason people do that is if they want the ducking to occur the whole time, whether the kick in the track is heard or not. If you use the actual kick in the track, and then create a fill where the kick drops out, then the bass and other sounds being sidechained won't be ducking anymore and might suddenly shoot up in level, which might not be something you want!
Hope this helps!
updated by @ptmembership: 08/20/21 04:33:52PM
1. Ableton's stock plugins do the job but other plugins come with extra benefits like multiband for instance (sidechaining/ducking the high and low frequencies in different amounts). Devious Machines Duck is one plug that does this for instance. The reason it's useful is you might not need to duck the whole signal, which can make the sound cut out a bit too obviously, but might prefer to just get the bass out the way and have the highs stay mostly as they are.
Another option is dynamic EQ btw. This is a type of EQ that can be fed a sidechain signal, e.g. kick drum, which then controls an EQ band, like a low frequency band or shelf, which can be made to lower when the sidechain signal is received. It's another subtler and sometimes much more preferable form of ducking. Pretty sure this is covered on the EQ Fundamentals course https://www.producertech.com/staff-picks/148/eq-fundamentals?number=PT001
2. You can find a sidechain on Live's filter and also gate. They can both be used to achieve different things - the filter sidechain allows you to modulate the filter cutoff with the sidechain signal, to bring high or low frequencies (or a band/notch in those modes) in or out, often to create interesting rhythms, e.g. using a drum loop as the sidechain signal on a filter on a bass track. You can learn about that in the Art of Filtering course. https://www.producertech.com/staff-picks/170/the-art-of-filtering?number=PT007
Gate sidechaining is a bit like a compressor one in reverse - the signal being sent to the sidechain opens the gate (in default mode), so makes the sound heard, after which the gate closes and the track is turned down or silenced. You might use this for instance if layering two sounds together, or if wanting to create a 'gated' effect on a sustained sound, e.g. using a drum loop as the sidechain signal for a gate on a noisy, sustained synth track.
So, they all have different effects and you should play around with all of them to get to know them, after which you'll be able to decide for yourself when you might find them useful......
3. That's up to you. The reason people do that is if they want the ducking to occur the whole time, whether the kick in the track is heard or not. If you use the actual kick in the track, and then create a fill where the kick drops out, then the bass and other sounds being sidechained won't be ducking anymore and might suddenly shoot up in level, which might not be something you want!
Hope this helps!
updated by @ptmembership: 08/20/21 04:33:52PM
More creative sidechaining is actually a pretty good topic for a livestream, so maybe we'll cover this in one next month....
🥲 That would be awesome and fantastic and great and I cannot thank enough, also I think everyone will agree that being creative with it can bring our workflow to a whole new level! Thank you so so much for the answers , helped a lot, I'll check the plugin and then dive into the courses !
I think I Rob use this one as well in a Webinar a while ago - but I've not used myself, but it looked pretty useful; https://www.wavesfactory.com/audio-plugins/trackspacer/
Seems to be some sort of multiband sidechain dynamic eq?
Seems to be some sort of multiband sidechain dynamic eq?
Hey @tuto - general rule of thumb with plugins is to keep things as simple as possible for yourself when you're first starting learning music production. I would advise sticking to Ableton's stock plugins (on the whole they're very good) and focus on learning to use them well. What's cool about them is that the GUI is super simple which makes learning intuitive and relatively straightforward.
I find in the world of digital music-making people are in far too much of a hurry to buy new plugins in the mistaken belief that it will somehow make their workflow, or their music, exponentially better.
--
🎛️ MIXING 🔊 MASTERING 🎙️MENTORING
http://www.mixingmasteringmentoring.com
I find in the world of digital music-making people are in far too much of a hurry to buy new plugins in the mistaken belief that it will somehow make their workflow, or their music, exponentially better.
--
🎛️ MIXING 🔊 MASTERING 🎙️MENTORING
http://www.mixingmasteringmentoring.com
[quote="tuto"]
Hi everyone, beginner here along with couple of questions;
- Do I really need the 3rd party plugin that everyone uses for sidechain? Or Ableton's stock plugins should work just fine?( Also I have LFO tool by Xfer, if that works too)
Thanks for answers
[/quote]
It takes time to begin to hear the limits of any certain plugin, or software... or VST even. And usually it only happens after you have trained your ears to hear the imperfections, or the imperfections that you didn't intentionally create, the balance between each instrument, and the placement or travel across the width of the stereo sound. It's actually a juggle of them all, because one can shift or ruin the balance of everything.
Save your work regularly. And when it doesn't work, don't waste too much time trying to figure out why... back up and find a different path. Why?
It takes time for your intuition and skills to begin to work together properly. It will be frustrating. It is not easy to imagine the finished audio, then bring it to life. Keep playing with the tools you have until you see their limits, then move on. The better you get at seeing the possibilities and the limits of any plugin or VST, the better you will become at using them to the limit of their capability, an then be able to move past it. Don't get bogged down in "why doesn't this sound right?" until you have a stronger grasp of "this sounds right!" if you get my meaning.
Hi everyone, beginner here along with couple of questions;
- Do I really need the 3rd party plugin that everyone uses for sidechain? Or Ableton's stock plugins should work just fine?( Also I have LFO tool by Xfer, if that works too)
Thanks for answers
[/quote]
It takes time to begin to hear the limits of any certain plugin, or software... or VST even. And usually it only happens after you have trained your ears to hear the imperfections, or the imperfections that you didn't intentionally create, the balance between each instrument, and the placement or travel across the width of the stereo sound. It's actually a juggle of them all, because one can shift or ruin the balance of everything.
Save your work regularly. And when it doesn't work, don't waste too much time trying to figure out why... back up and find a different path. Why?
It takes time for your intuition and skills to begin to work together properly. It will be frustrating. It is not easy to imagine the finished audio, then bring it to life. Keep playing with the tools you have until you see their limits, then move on. The better you get at seeing the possibilities and the limits of any plugin or VST, the better you will become at using them to the limit of their capability, an then be able to move past it. Don't get bogged down in "why doesn't this sound right?" until you have a stronger grasp of "this sounds right!" if you get my meaning.
[quote="simonshackleton"]
Hey @tuto - general rule of thumb with plugins is to keep things as simple as possible for yourself when you're first starting learning music production.
I find in the world of digital music-making people are in far too much of a hurry to buy new plugins in the mistaken belief that it will somehow make their workflow, or their music, exponentially better.
[/quote]
Yep yep yep! It's about finding the right toolset, or interface or software that works for you. Whatever that is.
Then it's about crying when that tool is discontinued by the manufacturer...
(thanks for that Native Instruments... grrrrr... 8 sensitive touchstrips and the ability to prgram the chord structure is so useful! Damn ebay prices! I gotta get another JAM)
Hey @tuto - general rule of thumb with plugins is to keep things as simple as possible for yourself when you're first starting learning music production.
I find in the world of digital music-making people are in far too much of a hurry to buy new plugins in the mistaken belief that it will somehow make their workflow, or their music, exponentially better.
[/quote]
Yep yep yep! It's about finding the right toolset, or interface or software that works for you. Whatever that is.
Then it's about crying when that tool is discontinued by the manufacturer...
(thanks for that Native Instruments... grrrrr... 8 sensitive touchstrips and the ability to prgram the chord structure is so useful! Damn ebay prices! I gotta get another JAM)
Thanks a lot for the great advices @betterledproductions ! (sorry about your discontinued tool 
)
)
Maybe this "Complete Beginners Forum" should have the form of a ... (sub) forum (i.e. possibility of multiple/separate threads/discussions)?
Or could it be that all beginner questions always focus on sidechainng issues?
Maybe drop the 'complete' adjective, already proven inconsistent with its first posted topic.
Or could it be that all beginner questions always focus on sidechainng issues?
Maybe drop the 'complete' adjective, already proven inconsistent with its first posted topic.
